I saw an approach mistake the other day that I've never seen before. We
were flying the VOR-A @ 12N (http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0503/05026VA.PDF)
and were a little off course (in good VFR conditions). My student looked
up at about the right time, saw a runway, and went for it. Unfortunately,
it was the wrong airport. 3N5 (http://www.airnav.com/airport/3N5) is all
of 1.5 miles away from 12N, and they both have a single runway of
approximately the same size and orientation (the both even have a lake at
the end of the runway).

Fortunately, he was on the ball enough to notice it had a big "6" painted
on the end instead of a "3". I wonder how many of us would be alert enough
to notice the same thing when we broke out at minimums?

On 2005-04-10, Roy Smith > wrote:
> I saw an approach mistake the other day that I've never seen before. We
> were flying the VOR-A @ 12N (http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0503/05026VA.PDF)
> and were a little off course (in good VFR conditions). My student looked
> up at about the right time, saw a runway, and went for it. Unfortunately,
> it was the wrong airport.

Until you pointed it out I had not noticed that the government charts
don't depict nearby airports on approach plates. The Jepp plates have
light gray airport symbols for anything you might see along the approach.
It'd be interesting to see the Jepp plate for 12N.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
...
>
> Until you pointed it out I had not noticed that the government charts
> don't depict nearby airports on approach plates.
>

Sometimes they do.

http://map.aeroplanner.com/plates/FaaPlates_pdfs/05145I3.PDF

Ben Jackson > wrote:

> It'd be interesting to see the Jepp plate for 12N.

Didn't spend any time doing this and I just scanned the pertinent section.
I apologize for the JPG width:

http://home.twcny.rr.com/thericcs1/backup/plate.jpg



--
Peter













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Roy Smith wrote:

> I saw an approach mistake the other day that I've never seen before. We
> were flying the VOR-A @ 12N (http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0503/05026VA.PDF)
> and were a little off course (in good VFR conditions). My student looked
> up at about the right time, saw a runway, and went for it. Unfortunately,
> it was the wrong airport. 3N5 (http://www.airnav.com/airport/3N5) is all
> of 1.5 miles away from 12N, and they both have a single runway of
> approximately the same size and orientation (the both even have a lake at
> the end of the runway).
>
> Fortunately, he was on the ball enough to notice it had a big "6" painted
> on the end instead of a "3". I wonder how many of us would be alert enough
> to notice the same thing when we broke out at minimums?


sounds like the commercial jet that landed at an AFB instead of the
intended airport.

You should have let him land (if it was an uncontrolled airport) and
then berate (sp?) the student thereby making you, the CFII, appear
just that smarter. ;-) ;-) Just joking. Just got back from my
IFR lesson. Went well. One or two more flights and time for my
checkride.

Gerald Sylvester

Honestly, I'm surprised you find this that unusual.
In my experience - which is little compared to many here - I have at least
read about enough of these types of cases that, even though I admit it's not
the FIRST thing I would think of, the possibility of sighting the wrong
airport is a real one.

I am often surprised to see how often two or more airports are situated within
a few miles of each other, and when I see it I do wonder how often pilots
break out and dive for the first one they see - though fortunately most
"wrong airport" scenarios do not end in any greater disaster than a bruised
ego.

G Faris

Invariably (about once a year, maybe less) a small aircraft headed
to FTG lands at DEN, 5 nm miles away, thinking it's FTG.

Now, DEN is Class B, has a tower ( BIG tower! ) parking lots that
are always full that strech for miles, lots of really big
aircraft, and that silly terminal with the white things sticking up.
Not to mention runways that are 150 ft. wide.

I'm astonished how they can be mistaken for each other.

We won't talk about the 737 flown by a major airline that almost
landed at FTG thinking it was DEN. Actually, wouldn't have been
much of a problem -- FTG runways are 8000x100.

In a previous article, Blanche > said:
>Invariably (about once a year, maybe less) a small aircraft headed
>to FTG lands at DEN, 5 nm miles away, thinking it's FTG.
>
>Now, DEN is Class B, has a tower ( BIG tower! ) parking lots that
>are always full that strech for miles, lots of really big
>aircraft, and that silly terminal with the white things sticking up.
>Not to mention runways that are 150 ft. wide.

Back when I was a pretty new pilot, maybe 10 years ago, there was a
Canadian pilot with a freshly minted pilots license heading to Oshkosh who
landed at Pearson International in Toronto (CYYZ) thinking it was Brampton
Flying Club (CNC3). The Brampton airport is 12 miles from Pearson and has
two runways, 15/33 3500x75 and 8/26 2500x76. CYYZ has 4 runways, none of
them shorter than 9000 feet. Here's a piece of the VNC (VFR Navigation
Chart, like a US Sectional):
http://www.bramfly.com/airport/vfr_nav.htm


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Bull**** makes the flowers grow and that's Beautiful.
-- Unknown, Principia Discordia

Roy Smith > writes:

> I saw an approach mistake the other day that I've never seen before.
> We were flying the VOR-A @ 12N [...] My student looked up at about
> the right time, saw a runway, and went for it. Unfortunately, it
> was the wrong airport. 3N5 (http://www.airnav.com/airport/3N5) is
> all of 1.5 miles away from 12N [...]

Is it worth contacting the NOAA to put a cautionary note about this
onto future revisions of the approach plate?


- FChE

> wrote in message
...
>
> Amen. I have heard a TRACON controller inform a pilot of a 727 for a
> major airline that he was lined up for a military base about 15 miles
> north of the major airport he was actually on a visual for.
>
> "Nice catch", the pilot said, probably realizing at that moment that
> the controller had just saved his job.

Rapid City and Ellsworth AFB.

"Ben Jackson" > wrote in message
...
> On 2005-04-10, Roy Smith > wrote:
>> I saw an approach mistake the other day that I've never seen before. We
>> were flying the VOR-A @ 12N (http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0503/05026VA.PDF)
>> and were a little off course (in good VFR conditions). My student looked
>> up at about the right time, saw a runway, and went for it.
>> Unfortunately,
>> it was the wrong airport.
>
> Until you pointed it out I had not noticed that the government charts
> don't depict nearby airports on approach plates. The Jepp plates have
> light gray airport symbols for anything you might see along the approach.
> It'd be interesting to see the Jepp plate for 12N.

The do as in this case
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0503/00877VT14.PDF

A North West crew landed at Ellsworth by mistake last June. They got fired.

My CFII tried to get me to do this at least once that I recall. An offset
LDA actually pointed towards the "wrong" airport (somewhere in Connecticut,
I think), or something like that. The "wrong" airport is closed, so the
'X' marks are a hint in that case.

There's also a river between the two airports which - if the pilot is paying
attention - would also serve as a hint to a pilot paying attention.

- Andrew

Roy Smith > wrote in
:

> I saw an approach mistake the other day that I've never seen before.
> We were flying the VOR-A @ 12N
> (http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0503/05026VA.PDF) and were a little off
> course (in good VFR conditions). My student looked up at about the
> right time, saw a runway, and went for it. Unfortunately, it was the
> wrong airport.

True confession time: about fifteen years ago, I was headed for the
Bahamas with the family. I filed for Georgetown with Miami International
Flight Service and got a briefing. Specifically asked for notams, was told
there were none. Arriving vicinity of Georgetown, I saw the airport a few
miles before I expected to. Double-checked the chart, which showed only one
airport in the vicinity. Calling on memory from a previous trip, probably
ten or fifteen years before, I was pretty sure that the airport was a bit
further, just over that group of low hills, but here it was right in front
of me and the chart said it was the only airport. It seemed a bit strange
that runway 10 was marked with Roman Numerals, but I figured that was due
to what appeared to be new construction at the approach end, so I assumed
displaced threshhold, and landed long. At which point I realized that the
whole darned place was under construction -- terminal building, runway,
taxiway, etc. The Bahamians on the big yellow construction equipment were
laughing and pointing. I took off, flew just over the group of low hills,
and there was the Georgetown airport, right where it was supposed to be.

Once in the terminal building, I read the posted notam (the one that Miami
IFSS did not give me), warning about the new airport under construction,
just to the west. No harm done, but embarrassing!

> True confession time: about fifteen years ago, I was headed for the
> Bahamas with the family. I filed for Georgetown with Miami
International
>
> Once in the terminal building, I read the posted notam (the one that
Miami
> IFSS did not give me), warning about the new airport under
construction,
> just to the west. No harm done, but embarrassing!

This is a good story to point out that FSS does not provide all Notams
for an airport, airway or approach. Even when asked.
If the Notam is published in the biweekly book or in the AFD, they will
not give it to you unless you request specifically them, by name,
usually having to insist.
A good review of the Notam issue is at:
http://www.avweb.com/news/system/183201-1.html

I have previously asked specifically if a ILS approach was available.
The FSS person said yes. When I got to the airport I was cleared for
the ILS by center. When I actually got on the approach I found the GS
was inop. No Notam from FSS or warning from Center. But it was there,
10 letters buried in the A/FD.

"gregscheetah" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> I have previously asked specifically if a ILS approach was available.
> The FSS person said yes. When I got to the airport I was cleared for
> the ILS by center. When I actually got on the approach I found the GS
> was inop. No Notam from FSS or warning from Center. But it was there,
> 10 letters buried in the A/FD.
>

The FSS answered your question correctly.

"Blanche" > wrote in message
...
> We won't talk about the 737 flown by a major airline that almost
> landed at FTG thinking it was DEN. Actually, wouldn't have been
> much of a problem -- FTG runways are 8000x100.

Might be a problem for the passengers that miss their connection.

Any idea what typically happens to them? That's got result in a
certificate suspension, if anything does (anything short of directly
causing an accident, anyway).


Blanche wrote:

> Invariably (about once a year, maybe less) a small aircraft headed
> to FTG lands at DEN, 5 nm miles away, thinking it's FTG.
>
> Now, DEN is Class B, has a tower ( BIG tower! ) parking lots that
> are always full that strech for miles, lots of really big
> aircraft, and that silly terminal with the white things sticking up.
> Not to mention runways that are 150 ft. wide.
>
> I'm astonished how they can be mistaken for each other.
>
> We won't talk about the 737 flown by a major airline that almost
> landed at FTG thinking it was DEN. Actually, wouldn't have been
> much of a problem -- FTG runways are 8000x100.
>
>